JF:     I have a copy if it, yes -- I’ve only scanned it and haven’t read it carefully. [00:03:20]  RPW:   You think that really some of this deliberate divide-and-rule policy? We try to look at the enemy and say “There but for the grace of God, go I” -- and to realize that he is in large measure, the creature of his environment and of the conditioning -- the social conditioning, and that if our experiences have been identical with his, then we probably would share many of present biases. But he said that there is no indication that you would ever get a lower figure than that as of now. JF:     Yes, to put it bluntly, that is what it means -- usually we consider a person responsible who agrees with us or who. [00:23:45]  RPW:  Let’s sort of out who is they -- you see. My time is next -- currently it would be Young as chairman of the group and I will follow him. [00:26:59]  RPW:How do you take John Brown? It is a matter of conviction and a feeling, an emotional matter with him, too, so I respect him for it. Now, I would say, on the question of leadership, too, that Whitney Young is absolutely right -- that the press has been irresponsible, partly out of ignorance, I think, and sometimes I suspect out of a deliberate attempt to create conflict within Negro leadership and the Negro Community. [00:06:37]  RPW:   That would be a desperate measure -- a revolutionary measure.

A favorite saying now among Negroes is “So-and-so, he used to be black” -- I heard somebody refer to Ralph Bunch in that way -- “What do you think of Ralph Bunch?” you know -- Well, he used to be black, but now has become white”. Farmer received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Bill Clinton in 1998. JF:     Because of the interracial character? That is why I prefer at this stage, to speak of it as a battle for desegregation, rather than a battle for integration. So it was on these principles that CORE was founded in 1942. . I am sure that this is a because of the pressure that we’ve maintained through demonstrations and so forth, and I also know from my little study of history that people’s memories are very short, and I fear that this sentiment will die down if the pressure is removed, and this is one reason CORE cannot, could not during the summer and cannot now have a moratorium on demonstrations. [00:25:58]  RPW:  Instead of across the board? [00:25:55]  RPW:  Do you think that part of deification has been because the Negro need for a symbol? Errors in the original transcripts have not been corrected. It has happened many times before. What various results has steps toward the achievement of a practical end              ? JF:     Yes, it should be a matter of choice, not a matter of compulsion. I think the white liberal does have a role. JF:     Is that so? On a national level, we have a number of such groups -- we have the civil rights leadership conference, of which Roy Wilkins is chairman, we have the council for united civil rights leadership, which includes 6 or 7 of the major civil rights organizations including CORE, with a rotating chairmanship. Local media coverage of these very special events, and word- of-mouth have made a "James Farmer Party" in demand in the South. In the Times tells the story about the head of the press – the Mississippi press organization, saying now is the time to look at ourselves for a change, to find out what’s really wrong us, “us” being the Mississippi power structure. The Freedom Rides we tried to screen out people very well. JF:     Yes.

They won.

For the past two years without much publicity we’ve had 30, 40 and 50 staff workers working the whole state of Louisiana, and this summer we plan to be stepping that up. -- so that Mississippi knows now that if one Negro dies, is killed or if a house is bombed or shot, that it becomes headline news throughout the country, and Mississippi cannot stand to lose from this sort of thing. A rejection, a repudiation of segregation. JF:     Of course it has dangers, yes. He was simply. As a matter of fact, Schwerner and Cheney were CORE staff members and the Fourth Congressional District where Nashoba County is, Marietta County, are CORE territory, and the people there are CORE, and we’ve had dozens of workers working in the Fourth Congressional District largely and a CORE field secretary in charge of Mississippi, Dave Dennis has worked as Bob Moses’ assistant, assistant program director of Cofo. He said “Why are you crying?”  She said “They are going to move all the niggers out of town”, He said “Do you like niggers?”  She said “No, I hate them”. But we find that on occasions, some fellow who happens to be a Negro, who makes a speech, gets the ear of a reporter and whispers something that happens to be newsworthy at that point, finds himself overnight, a Negro leader. Then what? [00:13:36]  RPW:   A university or college              that I know, they have a very large. So CORE was in with Cofo at the very beginning and it was not a question as far as we are concerned of our not being able to pull out because                        the initiative. [00:16:26]  RPW:   He makes a -- he is very much opposed -- I wouldn’t say opposed, that is not the word -- he is keenly aware of the danger of quota systems if they are not boxed around by a control which is recognized as             devices, because they can spread in all kinds of directions, defeat the very purpose for which they are intended; but he also makes a remark that           one of the dangers in the present situation is that integration has become a. Speaking of the widening gap between Negro and white you were talking about, what about the widening gap that is pointed out by -- well -- many people -- Mr. Whitney Young being one -- between the Negro masses in the slum, and the successful middle-class upperclass, the draining of leadership, you know, in terms of economic split. But to be equally proud of contributions that have been made by other peoples, and equally proud of the cultures which other people represent. Now, this blew up during the summer                           Before this most of the violence had been kept in balance somehow – appeared too under the auspices of order or law.



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